Deicide Arc

Yes, I believe the current theory is that Aizen didn't have the Hougyoku, but he had something similar. A prototype, if you will. But, Kisuke made a better one, so Aizen decided to steal it.

Yeah. Is it really that hard to make a small glass-looking orb?

CaptainYoruichi wrote:

Yes, I believe the current theory is that Aizen didn't have the Hougyoku, but he had something similar. A prototype, if you will. But, Kisuke made a better one, so Aizen decided to steal it.

yeah. Aizen seems like a pretty smart guy, he was probably able to make something similar. But it obviously didn't work as well, at least not until the end of the TBtP. Then once Kisuke and Tessai were accused he couldn't use it to experiment since the ones supposedly having done that were gone.

and I guess it could also be questioned whether or not Aizen's device ever really worked without killing the shinigami which it was used upon. The only ones that seemed to live were ones which Kisuke ended up working on with the Hogyoku... and sometimes stealing something that works is a lot easier than trying to make something that can work the same way, esp when you don't have the device to reverse engineer, so to speak.

Bellatrix has made the best point I've heard so far

Crimson Warrior wrote:

Bellatrix has made the best point I've heard so far

thanks :)

the only question is about the object that Aizen made, Would it actually look that similar to the Hogyoku when they were working on it separately? it's not unusual for people to come up with similar designs, but it kinda depends on what the invention is used for... how many ways is there to skin that specific cat? and is there only that one conceivable way (at first, at least) for that invention to fulfill that necessity?

bellatrix28 wrote:

... how many ways is there to skin that specific cat?

Not enough.

The only problem is see with this theory is the aforementioned similarity of what Aizen had and the hogyoku. I think it's safe to assume that Aizen was trying to break the barrier between Hollows and Shinigami, which was what Urahara was trying to do. But, that's not what the hogyoku actually did. The hogyoku turned out to be some kind of genie's lamp that did whatever it's "owner" wanted it to. Urahara wanted to break said barrier, so it did. I have a hard time believing that two devices with such wildly different capabilities would look exactly the same.

I don't. The most simple design in the world is an orb. The hogyoku and whatever Aizen had do not need any aesthetics in order to function. As a result it is not hard to believe they both made an orb even if the effects are as vastly different as male and female (or black and white if you want a cliche). Now, if Aizen's device is hogyoku purple, then he had somehow seen the hogyoku earlier and tried to replicate it. And I will be very angry.

SoldierG65434-2 wrote:

bellatrix28 wrote:

... how many ways is there to skin that specific cat?

Not enough.

The only problem is see with this theory is the aforementioned similarity of what Aizen had and the hogyoku. I think it's safe to assume that Aizen was trying to break the barrier between Hollows and Shinigami, which was what Urahara was trying to do. But, that's not what the hogyoku actually did. The hogyoku turned out to be some kind of genie's lamp that did whatever it's "owner" wanted it to. Urahara wanted to break said barrier, so it did. I have a hard time believing that two devices with such wildly different capabilities would look exactly the same.

ah, I did not realize that the hogyoku was a sort of genie's lamp. You are right, there would be too many ways to skin that cat, and it would be unlikely that such a similar one come from both of them.

has chapter 416 come out yet? perhaps it has more on this.

Spoilers are up at BA.

Here's what they say for anyone who cba to check.

Full Spoiler Translation from Sheetz at FLOL:

Quote :

意識を取り戻す乱菊、白伏で気絶していた。
Rangiku regains consciousness. She was knocked out with the 'hakufuku' bakudo.
斬られたギン。
Gin is cut down.
愛染回想。裏腹より先に萌玉という解にたどり着いてたが失敗だったと愛染。
Aizen has a flashback. He had made a hougyoku before Urahara but it was a failure.
完成させるために何百もの死神、死神の才を持つルコン街の住人から魂を削り、与えたが萌玉は満足しなかった 。
In order to perfect it he took the spirits from hundreds of shinigami and those living in Rukongai with shinigami aptitude and presented it to the hougyoku but it wasn't satisfied.
裏腹の萌玉も未完成だと思った愛染はそれを奪い、自分の萌玉に与えようというところで回想終わ り。
He thought that Urahara's hougyoku was also incomplete, and stole it to present to his own hougyoku. The flashback ends there.
斬られてなお萌玉に手を伸ばすギン。その手首をつかみ引っこ抜く愛染。さらに刀でギンを突き刺 す。
Gin's arm is stretched out, still holding the hougyoku. Aizen grabs his wrist and pulls it out. He then uses his sword to stab him.
進化には恐怖が必要だ、キミのおかげで超越した存在になれたと愛染。
Aizen: "Advancement requires fear. I was able to become a transcendent being thanks to you."
たつきたちの前に投げ飛ばされたギンとそこへ歩む乱菊。霊圧にあてられ既にフラフラだったたつきと観音寺が 倒れる。
Gin is tossed in front of Tatsuki and the others and Rangiku runs over there. Tatsuki and Kanonji are already staggered from the effects of the reiatsu, and collapse.
回想
Flashback.
雪の中、子供時、死ハク装を羽織って帰ってきたギンに寄る乱菊。
A snowy scene from their childhood. Rangiku approaches Gin, who's wearing a shinigami outfit.
死神になる、死神になって変えたる、乱菊が泣かんでも済むようにしたるとギン。その頬には血が 。
Gin says he's going to be a shinigami and so things have changed. Rangiku cries but Gin says it's finished. There's blood on his face.
回想終わり、ギンの元へ叫びながら寄る乱菊。
Flashback ends. Rangiku calls out to Gin as she rushes over to him.
結局乱菊のとられたもんとり返されへんかった。謝っといて良かったとギン。
Gin: "In the end I didn't have what was taken from you returned. I'm glad to apologize."
乱菊、ギンの死を悟り号泣。後ろには愛染。
Rangiku cries as she realizes Gin's death. Behind her is Aizen.
そこへ大きな足音がし、振り向く愛染の目の前には一心を担ぐ一護で次号。
They hear loud footsteps. Aizen turns around and Ichigo is there shouldering Isshin. Until next week.

DEICIDE18 THE END

So, Gin bites the dust. It's kind of disappointing, but it seems like we know a little bit more now. Knew Rangiku wasn't dead, though.

Like always the villain kicks the bucket...
It's sad to see Gin dying- even more so because I'm a GinRan supporter (aside from being HitsuMatsu).
But yeah - was to be expected ~

I want to know more about Gins & Matsumotos past - hope we'll see a bit more ~

...goddammit...

Well, I was hoping that Rangiku was dead and that Gin would take over as the new villain but it seems that the last two chapters have dashed my hopes.

Also, Bleach really, really has to end this streak of not having ANY of the good characters die. It's annoying.

Well, if you think about it, Gin kind of was a good guy...in that we was actually after Aizen the whole time. But he's done enough terrible things (bisecting Hyiori) that I think calling him a good guy would be a tremendous stretch of the word.

I just can't believe that Kubo managed to destroy Gin in just two chapters. Not only did he not kill Rangiku, but he was actually against Aizen this whole time. Now the only villain left has the same motivation as Bowser from Super Mario Brothers; he's just doing shit because that's what villains do. There's no rhyme or reason for it, he's just being evil for the sake of evil. And any motivation or character Kubo may give Aizen would be too little too late, as far as I'm concerned.

I thought Aizen wanted to be a cliche, I mean, King of Soul Society.

Crimson Warrior wrote:

I thought Aizen wanted to be a cliche, I mean, King of Soul Society.

That's is goal yes, but we don't have a reason. We have the "who," "what," and "where," but no "why."

Good point. He seems kinda on a power high. Kinda like "I'm the greatest fucker ever and just to fuck with you all I'm gonna do this but in a super long and overly complicated manner, hahaha!!!"

I know people are generally pretty meh, but here's the chapter in case anyone wanted to read it in full.

416.

This chapter just makes me hate Aizen more, if that's possible. I can't wait to see him get obliviated. I don't even think that's a real word, but I want to see it happen.

Ugh, are we ever going to get out of this arc? >_<

Some spoilers are up at BA, here.

Quote :

Sheetz at FLOL:

無事進化に成功苺
Ichigo has successfully evolved without harm.
親父に礼をいう苺
He thanks his father.
親父倒れてる
Isshin collapses.
タツキ、ケイゴ
Tatsuki and Keigo:
あれ…苺だよな？　なんで髪伸びてるんだ？　髪のせいか背伸びてる気が…？
"Is that...Ichigo? How come his hair is all long? Is it because of his hair that he's overreaching himself?
苺周りを見渡す。カリンゆずの無事を確認。
Ichigo looks around and makes sure Karin and Yuzu are safe.
苺　タツキ　ケイゴ　水色　本省　観音寺…
アフさん見て　イモ山さん
[I don't know what Ohana is trying to say here. This is basically just a list of everyone's names and not a complete sentence.]
アフさん突っ込む
Afro-san interrupts.
苺　みんなそこにいてくれ　そのままじっとしててくれ
Ichigo: Everyone, go over there and stay there.
ケイゴ　どういう意味だよ　苺
Keigo: What do you mean, Ichigo?
タツキ　（何も感じない　おかしいよ　あいつから（アイゼン）は押しつぶされる力をかんじるの に
苺からは　　　何も感じないなんて）
Tatsuki: (I can't feel anything. It's strange. I can feel that guy's (Aizen's) crushing power,
but from Ichigo I can't feel anything.)
愛染　黒崎苺　本当に君は黒崎苺か？
Aizen: Kurosaki Ichigo, is that really you?
その様子を、息絶え絶え見てる銀
A dying Gin looks at Ichigo.
苺　どういう意味だ？
Ichigo: What do you mean?
愛染　本当に黒崎苺なら　落胆した　今の君からは霊圧が全く感じない
君は進化に失敗した
Aizen: If you really Kurosaki Ichigo that I'm disappointed. I can't feel your reiatsu at all.
Your evolution failed.
銀　（ああ　強い眼になった　良かった　今のキミになら　任せて　いける）
Gin: (Yeah, you've developed a strong eye. I'm glad. If that's what you've become I can leave things to you.)
愛染の話を遮る苺　ここでは戦いたくない～～～
Ichigo interrupts Aizen. "I don't want to battle here...)
愛染　無駄だ～～
Aizen: "It's pointless."
苺　愛染の顔に手を置き　いきなりタックル　倒れる愛染
Ichigo puts his hand on Aizen's face and suddenly tackles him. Aizen goes down.
カナリの勢いで吹っ飛ぶ愛染。
Aizen is blown away with considerable force.
苺　一瞬で終わらせてやる
Ichigo: I'll have it finished in an instant.
終わり。サーセイ。
The end.

Gin's not dead, yet.

And we finally get to see, between Ichigo and Aizen, who is Mary Sue-er. And I fucking knew Gin wasn't dead.

On a side note; can we stop calling it Bleach and start calling it Deicide?

Ichigo has longer hair. Obviously symbolising a ridiculous power-up.

Well said - Gin isn't dead yet.

Yeah I agree with soldier: they both became very mary-sue like (well Aizen did ages ago...) and now Ichigo got his uber powerup (cause remember guys: when you get a new hairstyle & especially long hair you've reached the stage over uberhaxness).

Oh boy ~

It's about fucking time Ichigo showed up.

The chapter is up.

And it's exactly as self-indulgent as I suspected. I also really, really hate how Ichigo looks now. He somehow managed to make him look like an even bigger douche than before.

It's a true shame that Bleach caved to the juvenile portrayals and attitudes of strength and "coolness," because it was a surprisingly mature series in the beginning. Now, just look at Ichigo. Just fucking look at him...enough said...

He looks too bishy for the protagonist of a shonen.

But, I like how the tsuba of Zangetsu is different now. It looks cooler.

And, it was really satisfying to see Ichigo shut up Aizen by palming his stupid face. I can't wait to see him beat Aizen for real.

This manip says it all:

Spoiler:

i dont read the manga anymore, but i will read this chapter simply to see the epic facepalm. it actually made me laugh a little.